Something you want to see in the Mod

Talk about the mod here, could contain spoilers!
Zerointerno
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Zerointerno » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:14 am

I would like to have original athmosphere and gameplay kept. =)

However, original HeXen lacked the feeling of exploration on the later stages because of all-the-same objects around. For example "Castle of Grief" hub didn't introduced anything new. No new weapons of items, no new foes, even the old kind of boss. So just a new set of maps. So passing it through got a kind of routine feeling. Try to avoid it. Try to bring difference in the tactics as the game proceeds. New hubs can feature old enemies acting in a new behaviour. The good example is upgrading Centaurs of the first levels into missile attacking Slaughtaurs in the later. There are ways to develop them further I believe. You can make Bishops learns some new spells later on for example or make the Serpents fly or Include Ghost-Ettins or things like that. Thinking this way, just one kind of foe on completely new location isn't enough to make feeling of new "biosphere". I mean, if you are in necropolis, it must swarm with different kinds of different undead, not with reivers only. If it's dominion of fire than arfits are not enough to represent fierity of the place (bring me MOAR fire spirits there!) See the point?
It would be good idea to introduce some new weapons on later stages to satisfy exploration feeling, but I understand that original Hexen hadn't much weapons included so designing new ones can result devices that fit it's class concept poorly (Hexen 2 weapons mostly poorly fitted class concepts) and ruin "Recreation of original Hexen" feeling. Nevertheless you can develop the Tome of Power, or some offensive disposable spells (like ones that Witchaven had) to be on later stages, or just some new magic trinkets.

Same way, making the player to inavoidably lose all of his possessions (via getting captured or passing temple where you have to sacrifice all your possessions to open the door for example) can make further explorations satisfying and bring some difference in tactics (if the outfit would be pretty slow to regain, not "all your weapons are in the one room, just find it")

Also. The game needs some kind of tougher common miniboss-enemies among hordes of pretty-weak "zerglings" . Not epic mid-hub standalones like a Crystal Golem or Giant Cobra in Hexen 2, but just rare enemies whom you have to face from time to time and who bring special problems (see the Tanks in Quake 2 or the Acrh-Viles in Doom 2). Those who alone make you run out of the room if you suddenly face it across the corner. Ironliches and Maultaurs of Heretic can do the trick. Pretty tough, pretty much difference in the ways of attacking, pretty recognizable and damn still pretty fine fitting into the game concept.

Secret levels. The secret levels must yield something very special for them to be interesting to expose. Including some special artifacts would be unfair, and including special enemies would be too... umm... resource-devouring (I know, you are lacking modellers, texturers and animators to waste their time on designing special "secret" monsters). So there maybe very special puzzles, or some special story details. Eitherway exposing secret levels is unsatisfying. Examples from original HexeN: "Bright crucible" is a weak secret level. "Desolate Garden" is a good one.

That's all i want to see in this mod =)

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:29 pm

There's a few interesting points in the post. Namely interesting to me at least is maybe changing up some of the monster attacks later in the levels. That could be a neat thing to do.

I'm not entirely sure we will be doing secret levels, but our levels ARE filled with tons of secret rooms and hidden enclosures that contain some useful stuff.
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Zerointerno
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Zerointerno » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:36 pm

Glad you found some points useful.

Speaking of the monsters progression, new ways of attack isn't the only way to upgrade them. There are lot of other nasty behaviors they can learn with the progress. They can start feigning death, feeding on other dead corpses to replenish themselves or gain some powerups, reviving dead brethren, summoning monsters, shielding themselves, draining mana, flying etc. I didn't meant I want to see everything mentioned above included in the mod. I mean it would be nice if long familiar monsters suddenly start to behave themselves in unfamiliar way, and changing their weapons is not the only option.
One thing I'd like to ask you if would you follow the idea of monster upgrading - please, don't retexture upgraded monsters of the later levels. They should look exactly the same as their weaker brothers to make surprise and confuse players.

Still I'd wish you to take tougher common monsters on the note. Original Hexen lacked those who could survive a blast from bloodscourge and make a deadly threat alone.

Razbaz
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Razbaz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:13 pm

Monster interaction and tactics. For example, centaurs trying to keep a battle formation whenever possible, creating an all-reflecting wall of shields when any of them is under attack, possibly also protecting weaker ranged monsters. Like 3 or so centaurs maintain their shield stance while a few afrits launch fireballs from above their heads and hide behind them when shot at.

Also, item-related puzzles would be nice. Not limited to the ones seen in the original like complete the pentagram with colored gems. For example, the door that doesn't open normally nor there is a switch for it, but Disc of Repulsion used close enough will smash it open.

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:26 pm

There are some technical issues with something like smashing a door open with the disc of repulsion. We initially had the ability to destroy things with the disc and it was kind of cool. The problem was that if the disc was used in a space with multiple destructible things, like the barrel racks in h1m3 of the demo, it was spawning like a hundred moveable entities, all calculating physics, at the same time. This caused gameplay to drop down to 1fps for several minutes until the debris was removed by the game.
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Razbaz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:44 pm

Is there a possibility to make it as an event for some special kind of doors (mark them with a socket in shape of the Disc to give player the idea) - using Disc while facing that kind of door would be treated as using it ON the door thus negating its standard effect and opening the door?

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:49 pm

I imagine it's something that could potentially be scripted if there was ever a need for something like that.
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Razbaz
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Razbaz » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:27 pm

Also possible to use them as 'Discs of Propulsion' in a similar way (using them to hop between the walls to jump over an otherwise impossible chasm)

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:05 pm

heh, we're still trying to work out projectile repulsion.
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c4tnt
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby c4tnt » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:45 pm

heh, we're still trying to work out projectile repulsion.


Maybe I could help you with this?

deadite4
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:19 am

If you have a method of doing it, we'd be willing to listen. Internally we just went through the SDK and added comments on how all of our changes work to fix some of these bugs(our SDK wasn't as well documented as it should be, and it was not helpful to our newer coder).
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby c4tnt » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:56 pm

I can create this projectile basing on the native doom3 SDK. But I can do this only if your SDK haven't contains a lot of deep changes in the physics part. New projectile doesn't requires lot changes in the SDK code.

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:28 pm

well its not a new projectile we need. What my comment meant was that we are still trying to work out the ability to reverse the direction of the projectile so when the disc of repulsion is used it can effectively reverse a projectile.
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c4tnt
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby c4tnt » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:25 pm

Excellent. Should I form this code as a player's event?

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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby deadite4 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:44 pm

Well whatever would work best really. What you have to keep in mind is that the function, or whatever, needs to be called through the artifact_disc.script when the artifact is used.
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c4tnt
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby c4tnt » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:58 pm

Artifact's code in the public EOC SDK executing on the item entity. Player is owner of this entity and you could get actual "player" entity through item.getOwner See artifact_boots for reference, player really accessible from the artifact script


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RaVeN
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby RaVeN » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:04 pm

Intro for hexen:
Full dark screen
Ettin appears from teleport
Walk forward and make first attack with mace -> this makes / symbol (first half of X ) this is will be blooded
Second attack make second half of X this is simbol \ blooded
so after two hits we have \ + / = X
Now the ghosts will kill ettin (ghosts from wraithwerge a cleric four weapon)
Ghost will dissappear and ettin too with all of him parts.
Now we have black screen with blooded X in center
And before X with fade colors from black too White appearing "He" in the same time with "en" before X with same effect.
In final we have HeXen on black background with blooded X and word writed in white color with styled gothic font (hexen a like).

In game itself want to see vases with dark metal roses.

Ghost that fly to your face quickly with red eyes and opening mouth (like he want to eat you) -> and it rare thing no cause pain just for scare player if he inactive.

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Edgus
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Re: Something you want to see in the Mod

Postby Edgus » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:19 pm

Hm... that might be a bit of offtopic talk but.
As today is Halloween, I would like to greet this team of modders and hexen fans with that very interesting event.) Hope you get a good time on that carnival of witches, Jack-O-Lanterns, scary noises and(let's face it)... groups of children frantically asking for sweets.
:?

And well, this event gave me a wonderful idea right now. What about some secret places and curiously placed easter eggs? Or even an unique monster or item? I know I'm maybe asking a lot and some easter eggs won't fit with dark atmosphere of hexen, but I think at least Halloween themed secret place would be very-very nice!)

Bunch of advantages that may come out of this:
1. If you give some secrets(which I believe you already have) and easter eggs, fans would know that you worked through the game with very detailed approach, and suited some of the needs of secret crackers that can't live without secrets in a game. :lol:
2. Even Doom 2 had some of these Easter Egg secrets. Remember that Wolfenstein designed level?)) It would show that you refer to some ID tricks from older games.
3. Easter Eggs are fun to search and you can even include some links that refer to something that you really like(a movie, some links to another game universe, there can even be a moment when Star Wars soundtrack kicks in) , as long as it fits with the atmosphere.

Hope I haven't caused you much headache, and I'm sorry if that idea was there already, I haven't read the full topic.))

Yes, and If you like this idea, do hide these easter eggs/monsters/items well please.) And there can be just a couple, I'm not insisting on levels littered with these. =)


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